Ryan Wilson: Pittsburgh never saw this version of Marc-Andre Fleury Pittsburgh never saw this version of Marc-Andre Fleury

Foist. It seems like Vegas plays really good team defense as well. So he hasn't been left out to dry by the likes of Letang and such.

Good for Flower!

How does that chart show Vasilevsky as a negative when compared to an average goalie? He's been dominant

How does that chart show Vasilevsky as a negative when compared to an average goalie? He's been dominant
- Yeah Boyes

Data on chart was from before games 4 and 5 of the TBL/WSH series. Vasy has been very average throughout the playoffs before then.

Yes...we did, but it is STILL an awesome story.

Fleury never had a team defense like he has now. I am convinced that if he had a better team defense (not just better defensemen but also forwards who did not constantly turn over the puck, putting more pressure on both the defense and him) that his career numbers would be among the best of all time.

I am also convinced that the risky system that the Pens have played over the years - both Byslma's and Sullivan's - burns out goalies. If you look at both the 2015-16 and 2016-17 Cups wins and combine both the regular season and playoffs, the Pens relied on two goalies. They would not have won either time without two good goalies.

Injuries aside, being able to "offload" games to a reliable backup I believe is essential to this team's success. Niemi proved to be a bust this past season and neither Jarry nor DeSmith proved to be a reliable backup. I think this resulted in Murray being burned out by the playoffs and looking very average. He was not able to make the spectacular saves required playing behind this team's risky system. I think getting a solid backup should in fact be considered the number one priority this season, and ideally there should be a 75%/25% split between Murray and him as the starter at least in the regular season.

I guess when you only look at goaltending stats you might be surprised. If you watched MAF his whole career you shouldn’t be. Hate to say I told everyone so from the get go, but I did. How about that bum Ryan Reaves. Sullivan (frank)ed that whole situation up. Let’s get a one of a kind player that’s the best game in the business at what he does and can play hockey and give him 4 minutes a game.

The Pens didn't want to pay Fleury and now their reaping the rewards of Murry/ & no backup. This is not to mention the run and gun style that leaves the goalie high & dry often, the average to mediocre D with the likes of Letang and company, and the constant distraction of the team likely leaving him unprotected.

All in all, Fleury handled it like a true professional, and deserves all the success he's experiencing now.

I guess when you only look at goaltending stats you might be surprised. If you watched MAF his whole career you shouldn’t be. Hate to say I told everyone so from the get go, but I did. How about that bum Ryan Reaves. Sullivan (frank)ed that whole situation up. Let’s get a one of a kind player that’s the best game in the business at what he does and can play hockey and give him 4 minutes a game.
- Grinder47

Oh come on Reaves isn't anything special

I guess when you only look at goaltending stats you might be surprised. If you watched MAF his whole career you shouldn’t be. Hate to say I told everyone so from the get go, but I did. How about that bum Ryan Reaves. Sullivan (frank)ed that whole situation up. Let’s get a one of a kind player that’s the best game in the business at what he does and can play hockey and give him 4 minutes a game.
- Grinder47

Goalies are inconsistent. That is a known fact. Fleury has always had the elite athleticism to put up stats that are generational. It was his mind that was weak for much of his career. He either has fixed that as he has aged or is just on a hot streak.

Love the guy, but we never could have tied up $9-10 million in the goalie position. A choice had to be made between Murray and Fleury. Either decision put the team in a positive situation. Choosing both was impossible.

The Pens didn't want to pay Fleury and now their reaping the rewards of Murry/ & no backup. This is not to mention the run and gun style that leaves the goalie high & dry often, the average to mediocre D with the likes of Letang and company, and the constant distraction of the team likely leaving him unprotected.

All in all, Fleury handled it like a true professional, and deserves all the success he's experiencing now.
- CappyJr.

How did the Pens not want to pay Fleury?? they gave him the contract that he is currently on. The Pens had to choose between Fleury and Murray, and chose the younger, cheaper goalie after he had spearheaded 2 Cup runs. Some people act like the Penguins had the choice to keep both goalies and went a different route. Happy to see the success of MAF, because i am a huge fan, but still think the Pens made the right choice.

How did the Pens not want to pay Fleury?? they gave him the contract that he is currently on. The Pens had to choose between Fleury and Murray, and chose the younger, cheaper goalie after he had spearheaded 2 Cup runs. Some people act like the Penguins had the choice to keep both goalies and went a different route. Happy to see the success of MAF, because i am a huge fan, but still think the Pens made the right choice.
- cap1681

Penguins absolutely made the right choice

Here, let Mr. Fleury explain it himself:

if they let murray get taken in the expansion draft and flower laid an egg in the playoffs, the fanbase would never let them hear the end of it. in addition, flower was in the final yr of his contract making $5M+. if he stays, the pens cant sign Sheary and Schultz due to $

it was the right call, but i am more sentimental about flower. when they let mike bales go and hired buckley for MM, that was it for flower. I still think MAF finishes his career with the pens (as a back up) a few more years from now.

But the D in Pgh.......geesh

Oh come on Reaves isn't anything special
- Streit2ThePoint

He is better than Tatar though.

How did the Pens not want to pay Fleury?? they gave him the contract that he is currently on. The Pens had to choose between Fleury and Murray, and chose the younger, cheaper goalie after he had spearheaded 2 Cup runs. Some people act like the Penguins had the choice to keep both goalies and went a different route. Happy to see the success of MAF, because i am a huge fan, but still think the Pens made the right choice.
- cap1681

They gave up a 2nd in 2020 to guarantee VGK took MAF because they needed the cap relief.

Fleury's an awesome hockey player and a better human. Should be a future HOFer. Go Knights!

In unrelated news:

Mackey interviewed JR and the biggest take away is unhappiness with the 4th line and the bottom pairing. He wants a 4th line that is more offensively minded and a 3rd pairing that can be deployed more often to take the burden off Kris Letang. Also he wants to give Rust term, but that's a no brainer.

I think we can do the 4th line from within. We have an abundance of wings, and I think a fourth line of Simon-Sheahan-ZAR could be a nice defensive unit that still has enough offensive punch to satisfy what Rutherford wants. If the FO has finally realized that they can't give Sullivan the option of playing three unskilled guys on the 4th at the same time, the problem should fix itself.

The defense is less obvious. Ruth said we don't necessarily need a right handed shot, but we do need someone who can play up into the top 4 if needed and can form a competent 3rd pairing we can deploy comfortably. I think emphasizing handidness above all else is flawed, so I like that he said we're not looking for a specific righty (also we have a history of being willing to play lefties as RDs like Daily and Oleksiak). Something concerning is that Hunwick wasn't even mentioned, so I guess everyone in the org has totally given up on him. That's a lot of dead cap and puts us at a disadvantage to actually find the 3RD Ruth wants. Hope we can find a way to dump him.

Rutherford did mention Riikola, though. I don't know how much of that is him actually believing he can be the piece and how much of that is just him pumping the tires of a recent signing.

Fleury's an awesome hockey player and a better human. Should be a future HOFer. Go Knights!

In unrelated news:

Mackey interviewed JR and the biggest take away is unhappiness with the 4th line and the bottom pairing. He wants a 4th line that is more offensively minded and a 3rd pairing that can be deployed more often to take the burden off Kris Letang. Also he wants to give Rust term, but that's a no brainer.

I think we can do the 4th line from within. We have an abundance of wings, and I think a fourth line of Simon-Sheahan-ZAR could be a nice defensive unit that still has enough offensive punch to satisfy what Rutherford wants. If the FO has finally realized that they can't give Sullivan the option of playing three unskilled guys on the 4th at the same time, the problem should fix itself.

The defense is less obvious. Ruth said we don't necessarily need a right handed shot, but we do need someone who can play up into the top 4 if needed and can form a competent 3rd pairing we can deploy comfortably. I think emphasizing handidness above all else is flawed, so I like that he said we're not looking for a specific righty (also we have a history of being willing to play lefties as RDs like Daily and Oleksiak). Something concerning is that Hunwick wasn't even mentioned, so I guess everyone in the org has totally given up on him. That's a lot of dead cap and puts us at a disadvantage to actually find the 3RD Ruth wants. Hope we can find a way to dump him.

Rutherford did mention Riikola, though. I don't know how much of that is him actually believing he can be the piece and how much of that is just him pumping the tires of a recent signing.
- Victoro311

Fleury has a lot of work to do to be a HOF. He has cups, but how many times in his career has he been widely viewed as a top 5 goalie? He will need to put up a few big seasons with Vegas to make it to the Hall.

Here, let Mr. Fleury explain it himself:


- usmcaaron

now that is a whole load of the most stinky bullpoop.

Didn't Fleury steal the series with the Caps last year?

if they let murray get taken in the expansion draft and flower laid an egg in the playoffs, the fanbase would never let them hear the end of it. in addition, flower was in the final yr of his contract making $5M+. if he stays, the pens cant sign Sheary and Schultz due to $

it was the right call, but i am more sentimental about flower. when they let mike bales go and hired buckley for MM, that was it for flower. I still think MAF finishes his career with the pens (as a back up) a few more years from now.

But the D in Pgh.......geesh
- i'mjustafan

Could you imagine if they let Murray go to Vegas and kept MAF? MAF trying to backstop this years crappy defensive effort. Yikes. I can hear the sports talk radio now.

Hey.... Where's Mr. 4 goal Fleury? Haven't heard from that guy in awhile.

Didn't Fleury steal the series with the Caps last year?
- all-pgh

Absolutely he did.

I guess when you only look at goaltending stats you might be surprised. If you watched MAF his whole career you shouldn’t be. Hate to say I told everyone so from the get go, but I did. How about that bum Ryan Reaves. Sullivan (frank)ed that whole situation up. Let’s get a one of a kind player that’s the best game in the business at what he does and can play hockey and give him 4 minutes a game.
- Grinder47

Reaves has been scratched 9 out of 15 games this postseason. So I guess Gallant is (frank)ing that up too?

12 goals == 4 pts in the standings, nice but underwhelming.

My regression analysis says that the going rate is 3 goals differential for each standings point. Vegas was comfortably a playoff team without Fleury. With league average goal tending Vegas probably wins the division comfortably.

Their shooting % has probably been a bigger factor and a bigger fluke.

BTW, it couldn't happen to a better guy, I'm rooting for Fleury! Take that 4th cup!

Marc-Andre Fleury is a very good goalie. Aside from 2 bad playoff runs, he generally gave the Penguins a good chance to win games more often than not.

That being said, he looks like a different goalie. In Pittsburgh, he was not very technically sound and relied more on his raw athleticism, which is up there with Quick as the best in the game, in order to make the save. He's very quick, has great flexibility even by goalie standards, and scrambles better than anyone since Hasek.

In Vegas, he plays more of a technical style. He still scrambles when he has to, but more often than not this season, he's been tracking the puck well and getting set. I don't know if it's a different goalie coach or a different system that allows him to play that way, but I just see a difference in his style.

I've always thought that MAF was overrated. Very good, but seldom great. However, if Vegas wins a Cup, especially with MAF winning the Conn Smythe, I think he has to get serious contention, even if he was a bit-part player in the 2016 Cup.